Orange P7 and Clockwork frame tubing - what is it?

[Wheelnut]

I'm puzzled about the make of frame tubing used by Orange for their P7 and C16-R/Clockwork frames of the late '90s era.

Earlier bikes from the early '90s were labelled Tange or Tange Prestige. However, my '97 P7 just says 'Orange 8 series Cromoly individual butted tubing' while my '96 C16-R is labelled 'Orange 7.2 series individual butted tubing'. No mention of the tubing manufacturer at all.

So did Orange move away from Tange at this time? And if so, whose tubing was used?

Anyone know the answer?

 

[fingers]

Id be interested to know this too... I always figured it must be ok quality tho - P7's have a fantastic 'ping' to them

 

[brocklanders023]

I guess they just started sourcing their own tubes and bought direct instead of going to a third party (Tange). Don't know where they come from though.

Interesting to see they've recently gone back to a third party (Reynolds) for some of their tubes.

Anyone know what the first 1993 P7's used as the rest of the range was using Tange etc that year before the big change around 1994/5?

 

[Anthony]

Although this thread http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... ht=#623616 sank without trace owing to being contaminated with the valuation malady, it could actually have been quite interesting and possibly pertinent to this question. Vidal130 understands that the tubeset for this prototype was German, but he doesn't know much more. It is visibly a c1993 frame, so presumably made to test ideas for a model to supersede the Prestige, but he says it is very light and clearly they decided in the end to go in another direction with the burlier P7. Does anybody know of a German tube maker?

Tange tubing was more expensive than generic 4130 and it's just a business decision whether you think the punters will pay more for something because it has a Tange sticker on it. For the kind of prices Orange charged for the P7 frame, I would want to know all about the tubeset, whether it was heat-treated, what gauge the tubes were etc. But that's because I'm sad. Cool customers couldn't care less, so in the words of the great man 'never give a sucker an even break'. That was the principle most makers followed, so why should Orange be different?

If you read the 1993 catalogue, it sort of hints that the P in P7 still stood for Prestige, but it doesn't actually say it. My guess is it isn't Tange because if they had shelled out the money for a Tange frame, why not take credit for it with a sticker? Later they called it Series 8 Micro-butted cromoly. Meaning what I wonder? For that price, I want heat-treated, but I'm not sure whether the P7's tubeset was heat-treated. Does anybody know?

 

[mikee]

i wondered this in relevance to the differences between the clockwork
and the p7 re a 96 model the only noticeable change was the diamond
bottle bosses on the p7
maybe a tube makers signature ?

cromo tubing is it seems up for grabs in Taiwan hence the dn6 (hoho) on
the on-one frames

but would like to know more

 

[Wheelnut]

The P7 was certainly heat-treated tubing whereas the C16-R and non-Prestige Clockwork were not.

There weren't many manufacturers of heat-treated tubing but if was Tange, Reynolds or Columbus you'd have thought that Orange would have shouted it from the rooftops.