Steel Tubing Comparisons

[yagamuffin]

So I know some basics. Tange and Tange Prestige, Reynolds 501 and 531 and 753 but would like to know more. Mainly how they fit together.
Where does Reynolds fit with Tange? Is 501 lower quality/higher weight than basic Tange? Are 351 and Prestige similar? Where does True Temper fit?
Any links would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[NeilM]

Re:

Mainly road based, but take a look here.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=291055

 

[elPedro666]

Re:

There's basically two types: 853 and 'other'

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

4130 CroMo is a close match for 531 in terms of its mechanical properties. It also responds to heat treatment in a similar manner.

 

[yagamuffin]

4130 CroMo is a close match for 531 in terms of its mechanical properties. It also responds to heat treatment in a similar manner.

Okay, that's interesting. I always associated 4130 with low end £3-400 bikes, just a step up from hi-ten. I thought 531 was a higher quality.

 

[NeilM]

Re:

All 4130 tubing is not the same.

4130 is an SAE number that denotes the chemical make up and various strengths of the steel, so straight walled 4130 tube is very different from double or triple butted 4130 tube, although the chemical makeup of all three is the same.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

Here's a PDF that explains the difference between Reynolds tubes: http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... xtract.pdf

All steel alloys weigh roughly the same, so 1 cubic centimetre of 953 weighs the same as 1cc of 531, but because it's stronger, you can use less material to make a structure the same strength.

So to make a steel frame lighter, you use a stronger steel alloy and make the tube walls thinner. However, there's a limit to this, too thin and the tubes may be strong enough in tension, but so thin that they would be too easily dented or crushed. In addition, while strong enough in tension, they would be too flexible laterally, so the frame wouldn't be stiff enough.

I think it would be quite tricky to compare all the different tube sets from all the manufacturers. You would need to know the tensile strength (MPa) and stiffness (GPa) of each steel alloy and then take into account the tube diameter, and profile, the butting and the wall thicknesses of each frame tube in order to say that a Reynolds 853 top tube is roughly equivalent to a Tange Prestige top tube which is roughly equivalent to a Columbus Max OR top tube etc.

 

[Neil]

4130 CroMo is a close match for 531 in terms of its mechanical properties. It also responds to heat treatment in a similar manner.

Okay, that's interesting. I always associated 4130 with low end £3-400 bikes, just a step up from hi-ten. I thought 531 was a higher quality.

531 (like some other Reynolds tubing) is a little different from 4130, in that it's a manganese moly alloy, as opposed to 501 and 4130 being chromoly.

But even then - as others have commented, there's various aspects to the rest of the tubing make-up - be it how it's prepared (air hardened, heat treated), as well as how it's deployed, so plain gauge, butted or other methods to take some weight out of it, compared with plain gauge.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Indeed fellers. I should've been clearer, was indeed referring to the material rather than a finished tube. Despite being different types of steel the raw material of each behaves in a similar manner, so a tube of 531 will behave and weigh comparably to an identical tube made from 4130. The difference from the buyers perspective is that 4130 is simply a raw material specification which is used by dozens of tube makers, and 531 is a material AND construction, thickness, butting, specification.

Think of a Caterham car, one from the factory, one built at home. The factory ones will always be identical, but the home made one's will each be a bit different, despite having the same parts (forgive me the crap example).